biflex 420 experiment updates

[MERDY]

after various attempts to find a similar voiced speaker to the 515b and my 416a i experimented with 2 pairs of the 420 and here are some findings
in the regular original santana cabs they sound very good in a home theater set up when the lfe signal cuts them at around 50 hz, you must change the stock cap and you can try ribbions as well as small horn tweeters from vintage pioneers etc lowering the crossover point helps a lot and you can start from 2000hz
for music you can try a 6 to 10 cft sealed box and mount a 811 or other horn on top the sealed bass extension is very good at 35hz
open baffle is fun but you loose the nice kick drum bass at say 80 hz the benifits are in the amazing 100 to 2k detail
infinite baffle sub where i put the 4 , drivers on a door and screwed it into the door frame with window seal in about a 100 sqft closet crossed at 90hz 24db via a audio control richter scale was deep clean and musical some of the nicest bass i had heard , just not practial
i did try some mtm set up i did get some more sensitivity but had to cross them at 500 hz but was loosing patience playing with the wood as i needed the wood to make guides to pour concrete

my conclusion is 511b gets the gold,416a gets the silver,and the 420 gets the bronze and dont forget it was a photo finish of course the flash had some reflection from the alum dust cap

amps used krell ksa 50mk2 ,carver av5,eico2036,altec 1569a,home made 2a3/45 amps, welbourne 300b drd,dynaco st35,

crossovers marchand tube,rane ac 22,audio control ricther scale ,kinergetics sw 200

test tracks (sound tracks)
one from the heart,
last of the mohacians
blue
birdy
last exit to brooklyn
where the wind blows
million dollar hotel
house of flying daggers
the royal tannenbaums

music
daniel lanois, here it is
nithin swaney
cinematic ochestra
durruti coloum
perez prado
klf
future sound of london
this mortal coil
bill laswell with jah wobble
gotan project
goldfrapp
and selmer daves cd (he is a real horn player)

[RonSSS]

Thanks! The 420A or 420Y biflex are under rated...and still can be had at a good price!
I have a set of Santanas with the 420-8B and these have the diff motor and from the rear look like a 416-8B.

In the Santana boxes....with tube power they are pure Altec. The tweets aren't even all that bad!

Tried these in my 19's....pretty good results! No one commented when I posted that....for the most part.

There seems to be 2 variations....cast frame and forged frame.

Ron

[RonSSS]

I did not try plugging the port. I should have done that. And I agree that T/S says no port at that box size.

I always keep my eye out for Santanas. I got mine local for $175 and they are mint condition.

I have them on 2ft stands, and powered by 10w tube amps. They are connected to my TV. Works very well!

Ron

[MERDY]

Yes they are underated and can still be had for a good price, finding a underhung vc with those T/s is not easy ,the tweeters i have seen a few versions, if one was to use stock i would sugesst they mount it from front and glue a nice felt patch around the tweeter,
i does love tube amps and sounds a lot better when placed on 10 inch stands ,you dont get the bouncy reflection from the floor and the bass is cleaner
i have not heard the cast frame ones
you said you tried them in the 19 ,did you s
seal the port? t/s says porting does not work
just for entertainment i have been cutting and making various wizzers and using double sided sticky tape i have not listened to this experiment seriously and cannot comment and will try it during the cold winter days, now if i did not flirt with the girls in art class i could have learned something, my wife has been very helpful but she thinks i am a idiot and going on a wayward midlife crisis

[bfish]

Originally posted by MERDY:
...would anyone know when does the second cone mecahanically decouples from the big cone???

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Merdy,

The Biflex patent describes the mechanical XO at ~1kHz, but that is for the 12" version. Since it's a function of the inner cone diameter, one could extrapolate to a 15" if the difference in inner cone diameters was known. They may even be the same in that regard, I just don't know.

Just a ballpark bit of help, but the patent's an interesting read anyway...

[MERDY]

since they worked well on my home theater amp with the lfe crossover i decided to put the 1 pair of drivers back in a santana box and use the rane crossover at 50 ,60 and 70 hz 24db
i used the eico 2036 for the biflex and the carver av5 for the sub amp
the altecs sounded a lot better this way on all 3 frequencies but the eico amp does not like alnico magnets so i swapped a small el84 triode amp
the sound was fantastic even though its strange to have a 15 inch driver play from 70 hz up

would anyone know when does the second cone mecahanically decouples from the big cone???

i guess the santanas got a bad rap early was that the box was too small and the woofer to close to the floor ,plus early cheap ss amps

i will try them soon in my 816 cabs while sealing the ports in sept